Jordan Peterson recently interviewed a female Canadian military veteran on his show. In a short clip from the interview, he talked about the problem of sexual harassment/assaults in the military and the fact that to deal with this, the Canadian military said it wants to “retool” the entire culture of the military.
This is the same thing the Superintendents of America’s service academies have stated is a priority: transforming the culture to deal with this (ongoing) issue. See here, here and here at the bottom of the page. And here.
Peterson said he didn’t “exactly understand what that means because the culture is going to be a War culture.” He also said,
“I presume that there are downsides to that as well as upsides. I don’t know how to understand the downsides in terms of the relationship between men and women but if you have a lot of young men together who are single and a lot of young women together who are single, then there’s obviously going to be sexual interactions on a non-stop basis. I have no idea how that can be reasonably regulated. I suspect that the DEI approach is not going to work very effectively.”
The comment section on that short clip (A Conversation on Women in the Armed Forces), revealed some interesting insights and realities on a challenging subject that DOD does not seem to want to face or refuses to face in order to further an agenda, which at a meeting of the SECDEF’s DEI advisory committee was to make the Armed Forces (not DOD civilians) 50% male and 50% female:
“I was a combat medic for a line platoon. Deployed to Iraq. Earned my combat medical badge. We drove tanks and walked everyday. Our unit was a well oiled machine. Efficient. During our deployment, a female soldier was attached to our platoon. Long story short, we hadn’t seen one woman our first three months and this female soldier had the body that basic training gives you. What people don’t understand is that humans must take themselves to an unnatural mental space to handle the stress of war. Instinctual, carnal, aggressive, willing to go pull the trigger. The complexity of dropping a dime piece on us in the middle of our deployment destabilized our platoon. My men became distracted, began competing with one another. It was not conducive to bringing everyone home safely and certainly not the place to test progressive ideas.”
“Yeh, people have to deal with human nature, the uncontrollable side of human nature, AND anyone, in the “right “ circumstances is capable of things they would otherwise not do. I think one problem is that women can’t imagine the pressure from our own bodies to mate. The male sex drive drives us crazy under the right circumstances.”
“My oldest son was active duty when the decision was made to integrate women into combat roles. I asked him what he thought of it. He’s a linguist. He told me that in any given FOB in Afghanistan there are a bunch of Marines in their boxers saying things and doing things they might not feel comfortable saying and doing in front of a woman. Moreover, if there’s an actual combat situation every guy is going to be worried about the girl, where she is, if she’s safe, etc. It’s a huge and unnecessary distraction and a pathetic effort on the part of the idiots running things to rub it in the faces of the men defending their country that women can do what they can do and they’re not exceptional.”
From a female veteran: “I served for just shy of twenty two years. Women do not need to be in a combat situation to have an adverse impact on the mission. Good people take care of their people. There are avenues to address assault and harassment. I’ve seen women put themselves in bad situations too. I don’t think that women should be kept from serving but they do not need to be In career fields that are tip of the spear and they do not need to be in combat zones. Too many cons and not enough pros.”
“Women pose an operational liability specifically because the typical age range of military service overlap with their prime childbearing years. Pregnancy, particularly in the US armed forces removes a female troop for a year. What happens when that troop is filling a critical role? There’s no temp agency to call so the rest of the team picks up the slack. What if that woman is in command? How well would a unit function if their commander was removed on the eve of a combat deployment?
In technical components, the teams or duty sections tend to be small so the importance of each individual team member is magnified by scarcity. If a small team has multiple female members who all get pregnant simultaneously that can cripple a team. This happened to me. I was the #2 in a 7 person section that lost all 3 female members to pregnancy within a month. All were junior enlisted. Two were solid workers, the third was an apprentice in training. Hazards associated with the job prevented them from doing their jobs, and the apprentice’s training stopped. They were essentially absent for a year between the duty restrictions while pregnant and the maternity leave afterwards. The remaining males had to pick up the slack. I was one of two NCO’s. We worked 14-16 hour days for a year to pick up the slack.”
“Former US Army soldier here. I had to go through basic in Fort Jackson, South Carolina. This basic training camp was mixed, women and men. The women ruined the entire experience in so many ways. Couldn’t pick up their loaded packs, couldn’t do pullups which we had to do before any meal at the DFAC, constantly had to be trucked while everyone else was rucking because they ‘fell out’ or got injured, were always late in the morning because of their hair being out of regs or some crazy whiny shit. Every damn day it was a problem. And you know the military, everybody got smoked because some girl (usually the same 5) was late or in the wrong uniform. The women were unbelievably catty towards each other, so they wouldn’t help each other out. For instance, if a guy had the wrong uniform, we all jumped on him to fix him before the drill sergeants got there. The women would leave the others out to dry but then the entire company would get punished. Pure insanity. Then, we men had to step up and cover for them in team drills, team exercises, everything. Very, very few of them were not genuine burdens. I’m not the only one who has reported on this craziness. What made it worse, is we met other soldiers from other Basic Training Camps like Fort Sil that only did one gender at a time and all the guys said Basic training was straight awesome. They couldn’t believe their ears when we told them about our experience with mixed genders. The drill sergeants found lesbian love letters, girls in each other’s beds, men on ‘self-deletion’ watch because they thought a girl liked them. Craziness left and right.”
“Marine veteran (female) here. Got injuries right out of the gate, despite being very athletic my whole life. I loved serving but our bodies aren’t meant for that.”
“I want to say this as bluntly as possible. Its never ok for men to sexually assault a woman in any circumstance or situation whatsoever. That being said placing pretty women inside platoons of young Sexually driven men going to war is just BEGGING things like that to take place and pretending to be shocked when it does is laughable. Anyone who understands human psychology on any level and the relationship between women and men should easily be able see the red flags that will arise by placing pretty young girls in camps with thousands of men. Who will all fight over one another to get with the few women there are and that will create chaos, jealousy, crimes of passion. Especially if that girl tends to be “easy” as they say and sleeps around with tons of men. Its gonna cause PROBLEMS.”
“I’m an army brat. I was raised on military bases. One was specifically a training camp for new recruits. They were literally fenced off with (I’m not good with estimating measurements so go easy on me) at least 10-15’ high barbed wire fencing from the rest of the camp. Not for their safety. For OURS. We dependents had a pool designated for our use and it was situated fairly close to the barracks. My father drilled it into my head that I was under no circumstances to be found even a foot past the perimeter of that pool in the direction of the barracks. He could see by my response to this edict that I wasn’t taking him seriously. He sat me down and gave it to me straight. I was 13 at the time. He told me that young men who have been for all intents and purposes set apart from society for the express purpose of breaking them down and building them back up again, who were being trained to harness their aggression under grueling conditions, who were under extreme disciplinary pressures most had never experienced before in their lives, were dangerous for young women to be around. When they let off steam, they were no joke. He wasn’t in any way condoning anything, he was just realistic and he knew he had to tell me the truth of it. I never interpreted this as, “you can’t trust men” or “men are inherently dangerous”. I took it for what it was: reality. I know him being that honest with me saved me from a world of trauma even when I was no longer an adolescent living on a base of enlisted men. I knew well enough what situations to avoid getting into, when to leave a situation, and I was adamant with my naïve girlfriends about doing the same. They didn’t understand the danger. Men are not inherently bad or violent, but it’s in the DNA and when they’re in a group together and riled up, it’s beyond stupid as a woman to be there. There is a REASON why men and women used to be more segregated under certain conditions in the past. No one was wandering about with some pie eyed notion that men were anything other than what they’ve always been. You always hope that there is culture that values self discipline and control and some sense of chivalry where women and children are concerned, but you cannot be delusional about men who have their blood raised and testosterone and adrenaline pumping, especially in a group. Putting women into battle is INSANE. No one will ever convince me otherwise. It’s insane. And it’s not fair to anyone involved. It puts everyone in impossible situations needlessly. Women can serve in other capacities. And even then, they aught to know when to exit the room. And no, that isn’t “victim blaming” or excusing men. It’s being firmly planted in reality.”
“As an old vet who went to war multiple times as infantry, i do not think women should be on the front line in any capacity. Medics? Sure. Maintenance? Go for it. Legal or admin? Absolutely. I have no faith that any woman could pick me up in my gear while she was in her gear and I’m small for a guy. I was 5’7 and 160lbs but i wore 70lbs of gear so now I’m 230lbs. As an infantryman, that’s “light weigh” for us. I could carry the 6ft tall 230lbs guy who had the saw ammo for like 20ft. were looking at 300lbs plus my 230lbs. I’ve never seen a woman move that situation and i would never expect a woman to do it. Then, there’s the psychological aspect where most men are raised to protect women, so if she gets shot, do you keep returning fire or focus on her out of concern? If you kill the treat, you’re safe and have time but she may bleed out. If you stop shooting, they may get brave enough to stand up and throw a grenade…. what do you do? If you thought about this for more than 1 second, a bullet just flew past your head because you stopped shooting. That’s the reality.”
“Outside of women not having the physical ability men have, there’s the issue of what’s called “The Jack and Jill effect” which is young men constantly are trying to impress women and think of them in a sexual manner. When you put women in the ranks of men you now have men doing things they wouldn’t normally do to try and impress that woman. This creates dissension in the ranks and unhealthy competition between the men of that unit where there wasn’t any before. Men also have a protective instinct to women and could move from a savable wounded male to an unsavable wounded female due to that natural instinct. Combat arms was also the last place men had to form a true brotherhood specific for men which is necessary especially for young men. Sports, the boys club, boy scouts, ymca etc were all once a place specific for young men to grow and evolve forming bonds and brotherhood that is essential to their growth and different from those of young women.”
“As a man. I just think introducing women into combat and the military does nothing but create chaos, division, tension (Sexually especially) and if we are all being honest. Women are way more emotional. Are not as good under severe pressure like in firefighting. And as you can tell by their voting patterns. They allow their emotions to triumph over rational thought. I do believe there is certain places that yes they can be a huge help in combat. Mainly being medics and nurses ect…. its in womens DNA to be Nurturing, caring, compassionate and loving. That’s their strongest traits and its why as a man I appr3ciate them so much. But Placing a hot girl in a platoon of young men full of testosterone and Sexually in their prime. Where clearly at 18 all a man does is think about sex as they always have. Its a recipe for disaster and that’s before we talk about the legit limitations physically women have compared to men. I just get tired of everyone pretending like men and women are equals. We are not we have completely different strengths and weaknesses but when utilized correctly in unison such as letting men be the ones fighting and women being the ones healing and Nurturing is when we as a species are at our best.”
“I knew a guy who served in the forces. He said thanks to the DEI initiatives they were promoting women into leading roles who weren’t ready for it and he ended up having to baby sit and train his new superiors. Obviously this makes no sense and he ended up leaving.”
“It’s sad we live in a time where it’s reasonable to question even sexual assault convictions. Someone I knew in the navy (E7 at the time) was convicted of SA when he yelled at a female E4 who was refusing to run during PT. Telling her to “get her ass back on the track with the others.” Making reference to her behind is what netted him the charges he would be convicted for.”
“In the USN it was a regular experience to see woman get pregnant before a deployment so they could get sent to shore duty. we regularly went to sea “undermanned” because of this.”
“I was in the USAF from 1999-2009. Many women became pregnant and could not deploy and some became pregnant intentionally so they could get out of the Air Force without finishing their enlistment.”
“Never once met a woman who could pull a man in full combat load behind cover, if he went down.”
“Only the strongest individuals should be on the front line, and even the strongest woman is not stronger than strong men.. That’s not to say I don’t think women have a place in the military (especially as a woman myself), but on the front lines, your entire platoon is only as strong as it’s weakest member. Logistics, medics, drone operators, Pilots, engineers, mechanics… not at the front.”
“I was a infantry team leader who was in Iraq at a COP with just my company there so for the most part no woman except 5 times, the first was a woman MP came out for 2 weeks to search iraqi woman during elections and she was definitely green but professional, the second was a reporter who came out for 3 days and ended up giving a staff sgt the clap, the 3rd was when we got blown up and called EOD and for some reason that air force eod had a woman LT in charge…well they got blown up on the way out to us and she started crying over the radio to the point where my LT told her to give the comms to her male private driver so we could get the location (we showed up and she was still bawling, thank god it wasnt a ambush) the 4th was a iraqi american woman who was supposed to be our level 4 interpreter but she saw us roll in after being attacked and she instantly quit lol, the 5th was a iraqi interpreter my buddy met while doing a special mission outside of secter and within 4 days she had sucked off 6 of the 9 guys in the squad lol.”
“Seen a few women get their supervisors to ‘work for them’ with after sex blackmail. There’s some examples that don’t get reported. The other section members wound up doing the work…”
“There’s another scenario that no one is talking about: a female can get captured by the enemy, taken to an enemy camp. The enemy then broadcast over a loud PA system or by some other means…(the female soldier an American girl, actually, most likely around 19 years old) the unimaginable torturing of this girl. Any men who have any normal brain wiring would be immediately broken. Who could stand this? Historically, wasn’t one of the primary motivations for going to war to protect women and children? They are the true treasure and future of a civilized society.”
“I’ve seen with my own 2 eyes. One woman accuse 3 different officers of sexual assault. They all lost rank, 2 of them ended up divorced….she lied. Nothing happened after the 2 who lost everything proved they were innocent. She was literally called a black widow by everyone that knew her and yet she was still in with no repercussions after I was exiting the army.”
“Our gunners (Air Force M-60) had to be over 6 foot tall and fairly thick. This was needed to handle the gun and ammo. It is a 2 man crew served weapon. I am 5’10” as an assistant gunner. That’s the standard. When they did the DEI inclusion of women in combat roles (1986) they assigned women at 5 foot tall and less than 100 lbs as gunners, just to prove that women could fill the role. What a bunch of shit. Instead of a 2 man lift on a 90lb ammo can, the assistant gunner had to carry the can, and his equipment, because the gunner could barely handle just the gun.”
“To be clear, the push for women in combat roles does not come from a desire for more combat effectiveness. It comes from a desire to move women into higher leadership roles. In the US Army the combat infantry badge is a necessary prerequisite to rank advancement. The combat arms do not respect officers with no combat experience.”
“I’m a US service member. Just finished 9 months in Kuwait and on my way home today. It’s quite obvious to the public, but much of what was said is also happening in the US military. My unit doesn’t even have enough weapons to issue everyone and we’re not even at 80% strength. Discipline is on the decline. I just spent 9 months supporting other countries while the pudding head commander-in-chief allows our country to be invaded.”
“Female soldier here, 4th year. Want to get married and get out, live a more trad life. But I’ve been in since just after high school, so I have no education and I am living 4000km from home.”
“I have to give another perspective too. Personally I do not believe it’s a good idea for the moral to mix men and women in the arm forces. Many of them have spouses at home and unfortunately there is adultery going on abroad and much much sadness to follow for the children upon divorces. It’s not all about sexual assault and accusing men of inappropriate behavior … like I said there is adultery going on as well.”
“She starts by saying what the majority of comments are saying, that women are endangering men in combat roles . And it’s time for women to wake up to that. I’m a female veteran, but from U.K. When I served in the 70/80’s the women were separate organisations .. part of the whole, but non combat and non sea going. It worked. It still had its issues with various sexual assaults ranging from groping to rape, which was fully denied existed, and pretty much ignored. But also society was the same, sexual assault victims where not given fair hearings. With well she asked for it mentality .. that was then. Today’s world is far more “educated” and knows it happens and will stand when it does. Generally. In battlefield conditions, there are no rules, that concern ordinary life. Therefore my vote is the same as it was then, keep women out the front line. Has to do with women’s abilities or strengths or capabilities, has to do with a fully functional combat force. The weakest link in any unit, is where the standard is .. to make it smooth running. Biologically we males and females are made differently for a purpose. Let’s embrace those differences and run things cohesively. Hollywood has a lot to answer for; bad ass women still will fall against a bad ass male opponent, in reality.”
“I was in the service. Women serving with me were consistently held to lower standards almost across the board both mentally and physically, and even then they often struggled to keep up. What more need be said? Well, that the women were also the most sexually aggressive and promiscuous compared to the men even in the midst of basic training. That should also be noted. Also, there was more than one instance of false assault allegations, and in each case, the female eventually admitted to fabricating the claim for often entirely juvenile reasons.”
“She didn’t catch on that maybe, just maybe, it’s not a good thing to mix men and women in the military. You’re combining extreme high intensity emotions, with living together for months at a time, with sexual attraction and desires (and no other outlet for it). Even with good discipline, it’s a really bad idea.”
“Marines already performed the study in real life. Mixed gender combat units compared to all male combat units fall short in lethality, movement, etc… anyone attempting to force women into combat is deliberately putting that unit at higher risk simply to gain virtue points.”
“I got shot in afghan back in ‘11 in July and it took four other Marines to run me to the bird. It was over 100m sprint in a field and one corner still dropped me from exhaustion in 120 degree weather during a tic. I say this with the least amount of prejudice but women don’t belong on the battlefield. Men are better warfighters. A better investment is filling all the spots with the most capable warfighters.”
“Both genders must be held accountable. I seem dudes get wrecked over false allegations, too. Seen women deliberately seeking sexual advances from superiors and call rape when shit hits the fan. I was new to the Army, i was approached by a fellow female soldier. We started talking and decided to date after few weeks. Long story short, she had gotten pregnant by another and wanted to pin it on me. Mind you we hadn’t had intercourse in the two months we were dating.”
“I say this as a woman. I would never think it was acceptable to put myself in a man’s place and think I can handle my own. I would never want a man in my role or place either. If you think you deserve to hold a man’s place, you will get treated poorly. You don’t belong there. You can’t shoot as well, run as fast, carry as much. I’ve told my husband a thousand times, if a woman is in your unit, leave her behind. I’m not going to be a widow because some broad wanted to play dress up.”
“My oldest son was still active duty when they decided to put women in combat positions. I asked him what he thought of it. He said in an FOB you could have a bunch of Marines in their boxers saying and doing things they wouldn’t feel comfortable doing or saying with a woman around. In the desert they have to shit in a box in the sand. In combat they’d all be worried about where the woman was and if she was safe. She’d be a distraction. He said it was like the people in charge were trying to tell the war fighters that women could do anything they could do, that they weren’t exceptional. Set the bar high and people reach for it. Set it low and you get what you ask for. If you want to keep your country safe train the best war fighters and give them the freedom to do their job unhindered. The military is no longer effective if it’s a social experiment for the left.”
“As a veteran, I’m happy to allow women in all the same roles as men, however, they have to meet the same standards as men. If we have decided that the standard is the way we differentiate between those that should and should not be accepted into the job, then it doesn’t matter the gender, ethnicity, religion, etc of the applicant. DO NOT lower the standards for women.”
“I was an Army 19k Abram’s tank commander. 4 sweaty foul mouth dudes crammed in a tank that haven’t had a shower in months. I can’t believe they let women in tanks. Crazy sauce.”
“Women inherently degrade the bond of brotherhood that the military structure is founded upon. It’s nothing personal It’s just chemistry.”
“I’ve seen enough women conjure up stories aimed at innocent men just to avoid going to the field.”
“I went from an all male artillery unit to a pencil pushing unit at Ft Hood because they were short clerical workers. I was in charge of four of us, two men/two women, to put up a GP medium tent. The women started complaining that they didn’t want their nails breaking. I said fk it you two sit over there. Me and the other guy put the tent up ourselves.”
“I’m an Army veteran, and former paratrooper. Soldiers are supposed to be dangerous, they are trained to react violently, to obey quickly, without wasting thought on right, wrong, the benefits or consequences of their actions. An officer class exists to do the thinking and planning, the enlisted ranks merely execute. It is not wise to put women in this environment among these kind of men. We want our soldiers to be aggressive, hard-hitting, and able to act and react with minimal conscious thought. We’ve known this for thousand of years, which is why, contrary to what Hollywood likes to portray, women have not been warriors, and are (wisely) the first to flee combat zones. Those soldiers higher in the ranks are not the young, impetuous, testosterone-driven grunts who do the dirty work, but these higher-ranking soldiers are still largely infected with the bravado, the daring, and devil-may-care attitude of their subordinates, and females are not necessarily very safe among them. I may be old-fashioned when I way soldiering is a man’s work, but the old fashioned ways are often the best ways.”
“Simple solution – women only sections, platoons and companies. They get to serve unmolested (apart from by lesbians), and the men get to avoid false accusations. Cohesion in the males units will be better, although sure the same would be true in the all female units.”
“Women in combat, bad idea. Anyone who has had basic infantry training and understands interlocking fields of fire from two-person [sic] fighting positions KNOWS that that discipline will break down if there’s a man and a woman manning that position. The man will invariably do what it takes to protect the woman. It’s inherent in a man’s DNA. The first WESTPAC US Navy 6 month deployment in the 80s with, if memory serves, had 14 women on the carrier and 13 returned pregnant. The old fuddies in the Pentagon all looking blankly at each other, “How did that happen?” Really?”
“There are deeply ingrained incentives in the culture to get away with it, so what happens? It doesn’t stop. I deployed to Iraq in 2004, I was the only female in my platoon. I was SAed by the highest ranking NCO. It was more detrimental to me actually surviving the war than it was for me to say anything, You were absolutely punished and ostracized for stepping out of the status quo. I would have become the enemy, so I lived. . I lived amongst my enemies instead. I am even hesitant to say this here, the consequences are worth it though. Blame me all you want, just stop SAing people. There is no excuse for it.”
“Former infantry Afghan combat vet here. Standards should never be lowered for any reason. Women should never be in combat roles. Our military is being systematically destroyed.”
“I would start by asking who stands to benefit from weakening the country’s military.”
and finally,
“1) Physical – How many women can physically do the job required of killing trained men in close combat?
2) Emotional – How many women are going to receive the required discipline to properly train them to serve in combat? Will they receive the same abusive treatment that an all male unit will receive? Do you think you train people to murder other human beings by respecting their feelings?
3) Moral – Are we okay with socializing young men to be violent with women? Are we okay with committing acts that should be considered war crimes by putting women on the frontlines?
4) Relational – Are all male units more cohesive than coed units? Are we aware that connection is a critical component in protecting troops from physical and psychological harm? And since it’s so difficult to find women who can uphold the standards of infantry units, are we okay with only putting select few females in primitive and isolated environments for prolonged environments?
5) Sexual – Can you eradicate the human desire to procreate, protect, and provide?
6) Spiritual – Do women really have the killer’s instinct to kill in close combat? And to continue to do so for as long as it takes?
7) Developmental – Do we believe that the average age of the average infantryman on the ground, approximately 19 years old, has the maturity to endure the stress of killing and dying in combat, and then, has the maturity to navigated opposite sex relationships?
8) Intimidation – Do women in the infantry intimidate our enemy from attacking or provokes them to attack?
The sad fact is that if you ask any proponent for women in the infantryman, “if I told you that women in the infantry will result in A) more battles losses, B) more dead and wounded on the battlefield, and C) higher rates of psychological casualties, would you still support women in the infantry?” Most feminists would say they would not care about those three things they only want what they want. There is no such thing as selfless service to them. None. It’s all narcissism that pushed women into the infantry.
Paper Tigers. That’s the current state of our military. Imposters dressed in a uniform saying that they’re ready.
We’re going to get our butts kicked in our next major shooting war because we trivialized war. War is not Disney World. It’s savagery, murder, and dying.
I tell you this much, I wouldn’t let my daughter, or anyone I ever loved joined the infantry. I would rather my daughter go to an all male penitentiary. At least there are guards there. There are no guards when things get real in combat. And these women aren’t ready for what’s really out there. And they need to quit watching Disney.”
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